On Building Romantic Relationships
I fully applaud Pastor Ben's statement on establishing a healthy romantic relationship in his blog. It can be referenced here. Just scroll down to the entry titled Enriched dated Sep 20, 2005, and it's there. :-) In his entry, Pastor Ben clarified that a romantic relationship should be acknowledged as long as it is a covenant with committment. He also declared that he wanted to argue neither for dating nor courtship. I am extremely ecstatic that he has made this very important clarification.
Over the years, the Hope church had seen many Christ-sincere and God-faithful couples either being pressured into breakup or driven to join other churches because of the obstinacy of some mid-level church leaders in drawing too many legalistic boundaries in their members' romantic relationships. These leaders may be well-versed in the word of God, but they do not exhibit grace, and assume that everything that are passed down from their higher-up leaders are divine words without seeking the Lord for verification. The excuses that these leaders use to break the couples up include:
- the couple are dating and not courting. (even Joshua Harris, in his book I Kissed Dating Goodbye, made a disclaimer that we should not be caught up over the subject of dating vs courting as it was not his motivation in the book)
- the couple are still new in the faith, they should postpone the relationship to a later time.
- the couple are of different spiritual age, so there is a disparity in maturity, and the less mature Christian will stumble the more mature one.
- the couple never account to their leaders adequately about the ongoing relationship, so this means that the relationship is stumbling their walk with God, and it should be terminated.
- The guy (or girl) is in the core teamship, but the girl (or guy) is only an ordinary member. Hence, we should disallow it as it is against propriety.
- The couple have not committed their service 100% yet, or have not reached a certain leadership position in church to be considered qualified for building a marital covenance.
Ironically, many of those leaders who were so cocksure of their judgment of the members' relationships have yet to be involved in a single romantic relationship themselves! Despite at an age as high as 33, for instance! :P
You know, when I reveal some of the above "policies" to fellow brothers and sisters from other churches (and I mean, BIG, well-established and biblical churches in Singapore), it really jolted thunderous bolts of mocking laughters from them! "Ha ha ha! What kind of ludicrous system is that? You sure it's really a church you're attending?"
Henceforth, the reputation and credibility of a church depends wholesomely on the leadership. If the intermediate leaders provide unsound advice to couples who are building what appears to be a perfectly normal Christian boy-girl relationship, and shamelessly attempt to disapprove of it or tell the couple to break up instead, then woe betide these leaders. And may these wayward leaders face God's wrath when they meet the Almighty Maker at the gates of Heaven. Remember Mark 10:9 - "Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." If leaders wish their flock to multiply, they should examine their decisions, perspectives, as well as the repercussions of their reactions to members' relationships. Of course, unhealthy, gratification-oriented relationships should be prohibited, but proper, God-centred ones should be allowed, no matter what circumstances, because a relationship only comprises of three people: The Guy, Girl and most importantly, God.
posted by draco_malfoy!!!! @ 5:50 PM
13 Comments:
Hehe… so I guess it has alleviated the loads off your mind. I know I’m not in the echelon to judge or voice out my perceptions being a non-believer. Nevertheless, as what I’ve mentioned to you before, that not all himself/herself can wholly comprehend on what he/she is exactly doing. Because of disillusions caused by over deference and falling in line to the upper commands.
A human is never a perfect being. A leader will still make blunders and it doesn’t mean he/she will always arbitrate accurately. Conversely, a learning disciple or follower may not necessary indicate that he/she is immature without the essential wisdoms to judge or handle situations. You might not know that he/she might ultimately be the ones to reveal authenticated truths in certain areas.
Some people do things without questioning the reasons behind. They have a predilection towards following the mainstream. When their seniors corresponded to identical perspectives, they deemed and thought these are the veritable ones. In that case, its like working in a taskforce and doing the same things over and over again without improving or inquiring the reasons for executing such methodology. One day, if a subordinate were to request for the rationale of these repeated processes, and the mid-level personnel would say, ‘I’m not sure about this either… It is passed down by the upper management…’ Then, how can the truth be illuminated? Am I not wrong?
You can’t ask others to persist in something without explicating it. On the other hand, you should not do something when you do not know the reason behind. Perhaps in God’s state of affairs, He might do certain things that humans might not be able to comprehend; however, there must be reasons for that. Yet they are from God Himself, not humans.
How many leaders around can really understand what they are doing?
Bernard,
I believe that every church has its stand on relationships and we are not a church that prohibits romantic relationships. In fact, God has indeed created us to have feelings and to have emotional needs. It is not a prohibitation to any sorts that relationships have to ended prematurely.What you deem as so called "policies" i find that are rather uncalled for as it would not be a policy successful if a couple or a person would not want to hold on to it or even so to say follow it.
This is not to put you down or put you on a bad light but just my comments here...I absolutely agree with what Ps Ben take on commitment on relationships and not wanting to debate on dating versus courtship. Its true that leaders are fallable, in fact we all are, being humans, but leaders are appointed by God, not by human election, the only human factor could be we praying over the right leaders to anoint over God's flock. God would not want to choose someone who cannot take care of His flock or over His sheep.
As of my earlier comment, human relationships are ordained by God as said by apostle Paul. Encourage you to read 1 Corinthians 7 the whole chapter. :)
Blessed week!
i'm really sad to hear all this from you, bernard.. someone i ever trusted so much and even sincerely always support you in my prayer.. if it is not because of love, we won't be talking and doing so much of things together with you.. i m really sad..
i'm sad i heard this from you.. if it is not because of love, i don't understand what it is we are doing here..
kyoko...
Please do not feel affronted but I would like to voice out something though I'm not under the same line as any of you guys... Because both are my friends.
I believe that you have just viewed or heard on Bernard's entry regarding this issue. Well, how much can you derive or rather deduce from a person's words without clarification from the person himself?
Ultimately, only a writer wholly understands what he/she is penning down.
And to me, I'm someone who doesn't believe in first judgment before comprehending on the whole situation well. Isn't it abit harsh to say anything before the truth is out?
A sense of resentment might have emerged upon you during the first broke out of the news. Nevertheless, things should be calmed down in a way such that communication can illuminate further and resolve things.
Sincerely, I hope that you guys will engage in a get-together session to discuss about it.
Regards and Take Care,
Wilson
First of all, I must clarify that the primary purpose of the above posting was not to put the church down in any way. Note that nowhere in the posting did I label either the Hope policy on building romantic relationships or the Hope constitution as a whole as flawed.
The subjects of reference were some of the leaders in the church who had somehow distorted the original beliefs of the church in the mentioned areas, including BGR. In the first place, I stated that I fully supported Pastor Ben indicating, in his blog, his perspective of a romantic relationship extending beyond dating and courting. This has been the motivation for my posting.
Also, note that I did not mention names in the posting. The reasons leaders use to prohibit relationships in Hope in the list are factual and there are existing members and ex-members who can testify to having encountered them during their shepherding sessions. We all want the Christian community to be a healthy place where people grow together out of true love and fellowship, not based on the abuse of hierarchy, legalism or conditional love.
I feel I am just doing my part as an ordinary visiting member of the church, to remind church leaders of the important role they play in moulding the character of their charges. True that leaders make mistakes or even blunders, but should we allow the blunders to go unnoticed without any feedback? Silent acceptance of leaders' mistakes is unfair to the leaders as well, as they need feedback and criticism from below to grow.
An interesting article I must say..but do expect an onslaught of comments/ criticisms from your community. However, we can't please everybody right? I applaud your courage for writing this out. I hope this article will bring forth meaningful and healthy discussion from the blog readers and not personal attacks.
Bernard..
when I reveal some of the above "policies" to fellow brothers and sisters from other churches (and I mean, BIG, well-established and biblical churches in Singapore), it really jolted thunderous bolts of mocking laughters from them! "Ha ha ha! What kind of ludicrous system is that? You sure it's really a church you're attending?"
do you really love us by saying this to some other people who dont really know us before you talk to me? no any words of protect or even proudly post it on this entry?..
thanks wilz. you are rite.. :) i tot i'm too emotion for the first comment i've post, i actually deleted it, and post the second one.. but just that my old pc hang at that time.. i still very much wanna to maintain this friendship. i don't have intention to cause any hurt to anyone.. but i think when you really treasure something, you will have deeper feeling towards it.
hope we can end this here.. friendship is not culculative who rite or wrong, i still will prayer for you, and still love you as much as i can.
Hello,
It is too premature to use Ps Ben's message to say it is good or bad. The Ps will need to advocate this message to the whole congregation to make it concrete.
He will need to ask for forgiveness to all the couples that have been hurt by these policies, from immature intemediate leaders. I am sure that he too, have made this mistake before. Only when he does that, can the culture change and people be convicted.
Else, if he knows this is a good thing to do, but never addresses it in a church setting, is it because of other reasons?
Just a thought
Hi sorry, the last guy who posted on my blog, may I know your identity please? You may send me an email if you want to remain anonymous to the blog. Thanks.
Kim,
I think this is not an issue of friendship, and the intention of my posting, as mentioned earlier, was not to stir up any personal vendetta. Indeed, its contents might have evoked some amount of revulsion due to the sheer directness of my message. But it had never been incorporated to strain personal ties between us. :-)
What I had meant by that paragraph you pointed out was that the some portion of the Christian community, in general, do not agree with the methodologies adopted by some of the intermediate leaders of Hope in their treatment of members' relationships. They found it atrocious and amusing that such practices really exist in a contemporary church such as Hope Singapore. My point is, if the leaders want the church to be treated with dignity and respect, they should be appreciate the significance of self-reflection. Again, this is not a personal attack on any leader. It is a message to the mass. :-)
I just want to affirm you, Kim, that you have been one of the few leaders that I truthfully respect, because you have demonstrated love, humility and the spirit and eagerness to learn from others, including your sheep. I cannot say the same for some leaders in positions superior to you, but again, I shall not spell names. If all the leaders in the church can be like you, Hope Singapore will definitely see brighter and clearer skies.
bernard,
what i have learnt is from my leader, and i will surely continue to learn from them for they are chosen by God.
kyoko,
It is good to learn the positive traits from one's leader(s). Agree that leaders are chosen by God; but the Pharisees were chosen by God to take Moses' seat too (check out Matthew 23:2-10 where Jesus told the people to respect the authority of these teachers of the law but not to emulate their undesirable traits or adopt their legalism). This is why prayer is important. Praying to God regularly (if possible, daily) helps us not only to establish a closer relationship to Him, the Holy Spirit will also guide us to make decisions and discernments with a clear mind. We should always strive to learn from God first and foremost, instead of from men. :)
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